Turtlerock Forum

Hi guys.
As the topic title says... I'd love to find something in Oz, as the prospect of bringing something like this from overseas scares me a little.
I have realized that I can't afford a Neve or an SSL for now , so would like to have something that will still be a popular choice with potential freelancers out there.
What can I get for around $10K? I'd like 32 channels with inserts and D/outs (24 would be OK) and prefer inline design. 4-6 auxes is enough. HAppy with 8 busses.Meter bridge is almost a must.
Would be used for tracking and mixing. Nice pres and EQ would be a bonus (especially the EQ) but not essential, although with better desks, these usually are pretty good anyway.
There's a nice looking Neotek Elite for sale in LA at the moment, but as I said, importing would be a bit of a nightmare in my mind.
Some of the desks I probably would NOT be interested in are: toft, soundcarfts, ameks, tascams etc..
Also would like to keep the power consumption under control
Thanks in advance.

Soundtracs? (Don't have one... just suggesting.)

Keeping an eye on this as I am interested to see what is about. There seems to be a shortage in this price range.

Importing is not that big a deal, I have imported a couple Midas Heritage consoles but they were in road cases. I would say packaging is going to be your biggest issue.

Thanks guys. The soundtracs Stefan had for sale was a great deal, but I wasn't in the market back then. I have also read some reports, since I started looking around, that don't favour its sound too much. Never heard one for myself, so not sure what the story is.
YEs Simon, my biggest issue with importing is getting it out of the seller's place to the freight co.
If you don't mind me asking (pm is OK) how much did those cost to bring in and who did you go through?
Thanks very much again.

According to their webpage, Mixmasters has a Neotek Esprit and a DDA.

Yep, thanks Chris.. Seen those. What is the general thought on the DDA stuff?
Also D&R consoles... Any experiences with those?
Cheers

Cant remember the price, maybe $2000 each to sea freight? The H3000K I had shipped by the seller from Colorado to California to a location where the local vintage Mustang guys bring in a container load of vehicles and parts every month. The just put them in the container with the Mustangs.

The second one I organised TNT to collect from NYC and they delivered it to my door. This was the simplest as TNT handled all of the processing and I just let them know the STAT code for the import, 0% duty of course. With the Mustang guys it was a bit more involved in that I gave them the STAT code and then and had to sort out with customs for fumigation etc.

I am considering a console in the US at the moment and if it happens I would probably fly over there and pallet/package it up myself and then ship back via one of the other methods. There are a few companies about that bring regular container loads of goods in, if you can track them down you can probably hassle them for space. I haven't investigated this too much but I believe Penn Fabrication and Amphenol bring in regular containers from the US or contact you local used/vintage car importers.

We've put Gareth's old DDA in at work - it's great. Clean, very flexible. Split though.

I love my D&R Octagon.
Great eq, seemingly infinite routing options, in line, quietest desk I have (n)ever heard.
Sonically it's clean but not sterile, musical but not coloured.
Cheers,
Paul

Simon, if it involves flying there to check it out and crate it, it must be a gem... Do tell what it is if you feel the need to
Dave, what DDA is it? Inline is not a must for me, just a preference.
Paul, I heard they are very clean designs. Heard good things about the Orion and Vision (I think it was..?).

Senad wrote:Simon, if it involves flying there to check it out and crate it, it must be a gem... Do tell what it is if you feel the need to

Um……..

The DDA we have is a split design, not inline.

In practice the routing flexibility means I haven't ever missed having an inline board.

There's an Amek Big on Ebay (Adelaide). I know they probably have a few issues - people talk about modding them.

my DDA that went to tassie was actually what they called "split line" design
there was a "small fader" on the stereo aux by flicking a switch…

but i digress

you are in a really difficult price range for a "pro" board
I've been there myself
the DDA kept us going (and mixed a lot of "pro" records) but I've recently made the move to a neve for some of the reasons that you mention.
i couldn't really afford one either… which is why I've done the sweat equity version and rebuilt an old/ dead one.

there would definitely be some midas options
why don't you want soundcraft?

Thanks Gareth. Which model was the DDA you had? Profile?
The brands I mentioned I wouldn't be interested in, have not much to do with my taste, but it is speaking from the "attraction" point of view. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need a desk at all. Id be happy with one of the automated summing mixers (Sigma or sum.mation) and a well designed patchbay to incorporate outboard. I had a Ta@#$% M3500 in my last studio which was fine for what I needed it to do. That was more of a private studio, see.
What Neve have you got?
Cheers

i had the DDA DMR12
everyone who mixed on it loved it
people always commented on how good it was "for a DDA"
it was "good enough" for thirsty merc, alex lloyd, tim finn, boy and bear, josh pyke, passenger, and so on and so forth.
im not fully up and running with the new console yet.
though I'm really pleased with how it sounds so far (I'm mixing an athron record on it myself first to get all the bugs out).
change is as good as a holiday though right?
and i can't afford a holiday now.
;-)

I've one a few quick mixes on the DDA - if you can't pull a good sound on it, it's not the gear.

It does the 'make things sound nicer' thing of an analogue console, isn't noisy (there's a couple of well respected bits of outboard that are noticeably noisier) and has very usable pres and eq.

The split line thing doesn't really work like a proper inline design as you can't 'flip' the channels, but does work great when tracking as an alternative to the busses / direct outs from faders.

It's really very nice and *looks* like a proper console. I believe Tall Poppy Productions in Bris had one for sale for less than $10k.

Senad wrote:The brands I mentioned I wouldn't be interested in, have not much to do with my taste, but it is speaking from the "attraction" point of view. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need a desk at all

I've known a few people who've done this over the years... "I don't really need a console, but without one the place looks a bit semi-pro, so I better get something that looks the part". But these were largely commercial facilities, 10-20 years ago, where the client base was more easily seduced by the look of a big console (and put off by the lack of one)... I think times have changed.

Most clients will have only heard of the consoles you can't afford (Neve, SSL etc), but - and here's the thing - the clients that you really want won't care. There is currently a glut of semi-private/cashed-up trust fund kids' type studios (in Melbourne anyway) with big consoles charging $500-600 a day - do you really want to be another one of those? You might need to offer something a bit different!

OK I get that you're trying to sell the studio to producers more than artists, but is that really how it's going to work? If you are really committed to that idea, then I think you need to be REALLY committed to it... and you're going to need to spend a LOT of money on the right console... a $10k fixer-upperer is probably not going to cut it. Having said that, with the way the console market is right now you might actually be better off snooping around in the $5-6k area. Not sure why an AMEK isn't on the list - something like an Angela would tick a lot of boxes - and being able to get parts and maintain it yourself is crucial.

By all means get a console if that's how you want to work - I don't think I could work without one - but be careful not to fall into the old trap of building a studio around the clients that you dream of getting, rather than the one's you'll actually have. As a 'potential freelancer', I'm not going anywhere just for the console unless it is a) something a bit special, and b) fastidiously maintained - and even then only if the rest of the studio is of a standard that justifies it's presence.

"There is currently a glut of semi-private/cashed-up trust fund kids' type studios (in Melbourne anyway)"
Aaahh Wez, I laughed so much I weed a little when I red that. So true....I heard some mixes form one such place the other night, and could not fathom how someone could use sooo much amazing gear to make such uninspiring flat bad sounding mixes.

The only thing that attracts me is the sound of the recording space. I have at least as good if not better pres than most studios. What I don't have is an awesome sounding live room, and a bunch of isolated spaces next to each other where all the band members can have eye contact.

Yeah,.I'm totally aware of the fact that a $10K prop won't do what I'd like the console in the studio to do, but I just wanted to see if someone would recommend something that I haven't thought of and that might be a bit different/attractive.
Also, all the comments and suggestions so far have been really helpful.

What do people think of Calrec minimixer mk2?

just an FYI dave (glad you are liking the DDA!)
both the master section and the power supplies were rebuilt/ modded (at different times) and each of those changes made a significant change to the noise floor
that console also has a "non standard" earthing system (you would have noticed when you put it back together) that was done back at alberts
all those changes have contributed to the low noise floor that you mention

I remember you mentioning that now, of course. The earthing was interesting.

Senad wrote:What do people think of Calrec minimixer mk2?

I have a couple of PQ2647 channel strips that were said to come from a "Compact" console. Not sure if it's the same thing but the vintage is about right. The pres are sweet without too much colour and the EQ is great.

Thanks David. Compact is another one I've looked at...

Can i just throw in some reality i have probably bought and
Sold more consoles then i can remember i just cant walk past
A deal on a heavy bit if audio junk .

In todays market 10 k DOES buy you a neve or an SSL
Right place right time ..
But your going to spend 5-10k getting them installed
And perfect
That said your going to spend that on any console
So might as well wait for a good one is my thoughts

48 chn neve with flying faders left my place last week under 10 k
And it was a hard sell because it was so big

And my euphonixes just went out under ten cheap because
There was SO much stuff that had to go as a complete
Set

So if your budget is 20 you can have it all
If its actually ten
Your talking about a 3-5 k console in reality
And 5 k maintenance / install minimum

Just saying .

I was quietly hoping that someone like you, Rick, would come round and offer one of your ex ABC gems or similar.
And then you do this:

rick wrote:

48 chn neve with flying faders left my place last week under 10 k
And it was a hard sell because it was so big

I understand there's at least another 10K to get it running properly, but still.. (no matter which Neve it was, still it's the "N" word on the side.)

I must say that I am a little scared of maintenance and power bills as well. Power bills probably more than anything.
It'd also be pretty good to find something a bit newer, like an Audient or something....

There was a really big audient kicking around
6-8 months ago an owner with a storage problem
It might still be available .. I'll look into it
If i contact you its available if not its not

if that was the audient in Sydney.
it came to perth with me.
seb

You have to be quick though. I almost had a sniff at Rick's Euphonix but missed the boat. Probably lucky though as my wife would have shot me keeping everything in the garage until the studio build is completed.

Good luck with your search.

tunetown wrote:You have to be quick though. I almost had a sniff at Rick's Euphonix but missed the boat. Probably lucky though as my wife would have shot me keeping everything in the garage until the studio build is completed.

My moto is that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission so I just buy and suffer the consequences later. Usually it is worth it.