Turtlerock Forum

I was going to have a break from the studio today, but had a few guitars that I need to tune up. Ahh, I'll tune these babies up and then I'm going home. OK, just a little jam through the JCM800. Just checking they sound ok. Yep. Hey this is a cool little riff. Hmm, maybe BFD2 has a basic rock 'groove' that I can use as a backing. Oh yeah, baby. That's the one. Maybe, move that mic on axis this time. Few EQ tweaks on the amp. Hmm, I should double track those guitars. This totally needs bass now. Now let's have some fun playing a solo over this. ooh yeah. bopping along.

Anyway for your listening pleasure (or an assault on your ears):
www.hollands.com.au/R21Studios/Audio/OhYeah2.mp3

So much for a day off. Anyways as always any comments that prop to mind.

Reverb glutton. :) :)

heathen wrote:Reverb glutton. :) :)

ROTFL!

ha ha. On my lead guitar or the snare, or both? Lol. (snare doesn't have verb but has ambience from oh's I think)

Just on the guitar I mainly noticed, JCM sounds good though, always my fav sounding amps.

heathen wrote:Just on the guitar I mainly noticed, JCM sounds good though, always my fav sounding amps.

I'll have to look at that verb on the lead! Yeah, I'm suprised how much I'm enjoying recording the JCM800! I have a pretty horrible sounding room, but I've got these massive beanbags and pillows around the sides and the back of the microphone to avoid as much reflections from the room, comb filtering etc. (probably no where near enough mass to actually soak everything up, but I think it helps somewhat. I'm about a foot and half away from the speaker cone.)

I'll bring my 1960A Lead 4 x 12 cabinent to the studio soon. That'll be fun! Not as gnarly and midrangy as the 2 x 12 open back combo. A little smoother, but with bigger bottom end. So I'm totally looking forward to that!

Actually a question. I noticed with my be!@#$%^& B2 Pro microphone (cough) whenever I record my vocals it's quite sibilent. Actually extremely. Same deal when I'm recording guitars with it. Have to try and de-ess the parts to avoid the screeching in the ears. Would that be a product of a terrible microphone, or is it common to get sibelence in recorded guitars?

DwaneHollands wrote:Actually a question. I noticed with my be!@#$%^& B2 Pro microphone (cough) whenever I record my vocals it's quite sibilent. Actually extremely. Same deal when I'm recording guitars with it. Have to try and de-ess the parts to avoid the screeching in the ears. Would that be a product of a terrible microphone, or is it common to get sibelence in recorded guitars?

Sibilance issues seem to happen with lots of LDCs, this has to do with the high mid peak that was popular for a while. Some claim that a pencil attached with a rubber band across the front of the mic can help. I have found that not singing right into the capsule can also help, and also keeping he emphasis on your vowels and not singing longs esses.

In regards to electric guitars, I rarely use condensors. Much prefer the results using a ribbon, or ribbon + 57 or 421. Even the cheapo ribbons work pretty nicely on electrics, certainly captures a lot more body(like a condensor, but without the sizzle), then you can add the dynamic in for clarity/more tops if its needed. You could also try a windscreen or wrapping some material around the mic to cut the high end response and see if that helps at all. Also, cutting the presence/treble on the amp, even if it sounds wrong in the room, might be another approach.

I recently bought an MXL v69i off ebay, and this has a warm/bright option, and I find I can use that on an amp in warm mode.

Obviously spending large amounts of money on a better mic is another option, but you might enjoy another guitar more :-)

The guitar on your track sounded pretty good though.

Cheers

hi there,

Dwayne..anybody ever told you that you have more than a hint of Zappa
in your playing ?? !!

C heers
N
Y
M
O

(Who can't play git to save himself!)

lonearranger wrote: Sibilance issues seem to happen with lots of LDCs, this has to do with the high mid peak that was popular for a while. Some claim that a pencil attached with a rubber band across the front of the mic can help. I have found that not singing right into the capsule can also help, and also keeping he emphasis on your vowels and not singing longs esses.

What are LDC's?

lonearranger wrote: In regards to electric guitars, I rarely use condensors. Much prefer the results using a ribbon, or ribbon + 57 or 421. Even the cheapo ribbons work pretty nicely on electrics, certainly captures a lot more body(like a condensor, but without the sizzle), then you can add the dynamic in for clarity/more tops if its needed. You could also try a windscreen or wrapping some material around the mic to cut the high end response and see if that helps at all. Also, cutting the presence/treble on the amp, even if it sounds wrong in the room, might be another approach.

Great tips. I'll try the pencil and rubber band thing. (I had forgotten about it. read it ages ago!) That's great info about the ribbons. I'll have to source one for myself, I know a lot of people are crazy about the royer 121/122's for guitars. I should get a cheapy to experiment first. If I can avoid the sibilence with a 'darker' mic, then I won't have to masacre the top end to cut it out. Possibly even boost the top end while mixing. I noticed it sounded 'fluffier' when I finished the EQing with plugins on my guitars. All in an effort to avoid that harshness. Perhaps it has to do with those phase issues with EQ's they talk about. (massenberg eq's apparently have very little of it)

lonearranger wrote:Obviously spending large amounts of money on a better mic is another option, but you might enjoy another guitar more :-)

ha ha. I don't know, I'm kinda addicted to recording tools right now. However, VOX has put out the "Satchurator" distortion pedal which is about $200 and looks very tasty. Straight into the JCM800 with 4x12.... belisimo!

lonearranger wrote:The guitar on your track sounded pretty good though.

Cool. I'll keep working at getting better tones and sounds!

NYMo wrote:Dwayne..anybody ever told you that you have more than a hint of Zappa
in your playing ?? !!

Ha ha. I can honestly say you are the first. I have never heard Frank Zappa play before. I got on youtube last night and had a listen. Man that guy is pretty eccentric!

When I had been playing for about 5-7 years ,I didn't like the idea of Frank Zappa. I was into Joe Satriani. I was after that technically immaculent playing. Guys who wanted to make the guitar sing and push technicality to it's limits.

When I read about Frank Zappa, how he would give up playing guitar for a year after doing an album and have to re-learn it again, just put me off him. I was like, "Vai practices 10-12 hours a day, Satriani complains about students who won't practice enough, How good could this Zappa guy really be."

Honestly, I can't say that I'm a fan of his playing, but I can say I've never heard any one like him before. His obtuse style is impressive. I've heard a few things that remind me of Satriani. Some pentatonic/blues riffing. Perhaps Satriani was influenced by Zappa. Actually listened to some more of his solo's and some stuff Vai and Van Halen plays sounds reminiscent!

Hi there,

I hear dem boyz influences...actually Vai used to play with Zappa for a few years !

What you need to understand about FZ is that he has a huge body of work and was
playing since the 50's (drums!) but IMHO his best guitar work is in the 70;s...check out Hots Rats 1971 (not Hot Rats Wakajawaka) He plays 9 minute solos in a few trax !

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

LDC - large diaphragm condensor

DwaneHollands wrote:

lonearranger wrote: Sibilance issues seem to happen with lots of LDCs, this has to do with the high mid peak that was popular for a while. Some claim that a pencil attached with a rubber band across the front of the mic can help. I have found that not singing right into the capsule can also help, and also keeping he emphasis on your vowels and not singing longs esses.

What are LDC's?

Large Diaphragm Condensor Mic.

DwaneHollands wrote:

lonearranger wrote: In regards to electric guitars, I rarely use condensors. Much prefer the results using a ribbon, or ribbon + 57 or 421. Even the cheapo ribbons work pretty nicely on electrics, certainly captures a lot more body(like a condensor, but without the sizzle), then you can add the dynamic in for clarity/more tops if its needed. You could also try a windscreen or wrapping some material around the mic to cut the high end response and see if that helps at all. Also, cutting the presence/treble on the amp, even if it sounds wrong in the room, might be another approach.

Great tips. I'll try the pencil and rubber band thing. (I had forgotten about it. read it ages ago!) That's great info about the ribbons. I'll have to source one for myself, I know a lot of people are crazy about the royer 121/122's for guitars. I should get a cheapy to experiment first. If I can avoid the sibilence with a 'darker' mic, then I won't have to masacre the top end to cut it out. Possibly even boost the top end while mixing. I noticed it sounded 'fluffier' when I finished the EQing with plugins on my guitars. All in an effort to avoid that harshness. Perhaps it has to do with those phase issues with EQ's they talk about. (massenberg eq's apparently have very little of it)

The pencil thing will probably do more for vocal sibilance than too much tops on guitar.

For cheaper ribbons these are some local options :
This is similar to an alcatron one that I use - BH are free postage at the moment too.
http://www.billyhydemusic.com.au/shop/v ... ibbon-mic/
or look for the golden age stuff.

Cascade fatheads ot fatheadII seem fairly popular too - not sure if anyone is doing locally though. Ribbons can have problems in transport, so having a local source with warranty is handy, as the $50 you save buying overseas will get lost pretty quick if the ribbon is DOA.

You could also try running the guitars thru a cabinet plug - if your guitar amp plug lets you just go thru a cabinet or use an impulse reverb with a speaker/cabinet impulse rather than a reverb.

DwaneHollands wrote:

lonearranger wrote:Obviously spending large amounts of money on a better mic is another option, but you might enjoy another guitar more :-)

ha ha. I don't know, I'm kinda addicted to recording tools right now. However, VOX has put out the "Satchurator" distortion pedal which is about $200 and looks very tasty. Straight into the JCM800 with 4x12.... belisimo!

lonearranger wrote:The guitar on your track sounded pretty good though.

Cool. I'll keep working at getting better tones and sounds!

Have you seen the blackstar pedals? I have a DUAL HT which I like.

NYMo wrote:What you need to understand about FZ is that he has a huge body of work and was
playing since the 50's (drums!) but IMHO his best guitar work is in the 70;s...check out Hots Rats 1971 (not Hot Rats Wakajawaka) He plays 9 minute solos in a few trax !

I'll do another search for it!

TimS wrote:LDC - large diaphragm condensor

Slap my forehead! I should have got that one! ugggh.

lonearranger wrote:

DwaneHollands wrote:

lonearranger wrote: Sibilance issues seem to happen with lots of LDCs, this has to do with the high mid peak that was popular for a while. Some claim that a pencil attached with a rubber band across the front of the mic can help. I have found that not singing right into the capsule can also help, and also keeping he emphasis on your vowels and not singing longs esses.

What are LDC's?

Large Diaphragm Condensor Mic.

DwaneHollands wrote:

lonearranger wrote: In regards to electric guitars, I rarely use condensors. Much prefer the results using a ribbon, or ribbon + 57 or 421. Even the cheapo ribbons work pretty nicely on electrics, certainly captures a lot more body(like a condensor, but without the sizzle), then you can add the dynamic in for clarity/more tops if its needed. You could also try a windscreen or wrapping some material around the mic to cut the high end response and see if that helps at all. Also, cutting the presence/treble on the amp, even if it sounds wrong in the room, might be another approach.

Great tips. I'll try the pencil and rubber band thing. (I had forgotten about it. read it ages ago!) That's great info about the ribbons. I'll have to source one for myself, I know a lot of people are crazy about the royer 121/122's for guitars. I should get a cheapy to experiment first. If I can avoid the sibilence with a 'darker' mic, then I won't have to masacre the top end to cut it out. Possibly even boost the top end while mixing. I noticed it sounded 'fluffier' when I finished the EQing with plugins on my guitars. All in an effort to avoid that harshness. Perhaps it has to do with those phase issues with EQ's they talk about. (massenberg eq's apparently have very little of it)

The pencil thing will probably do more for vocal sibilance than too much tops on guitar.

For cheaper ribbons these are some local options :
This is similar to an alcatron one that I use - BH are free postage at the moment too.
http://www.billyhydemusic.com.au/shop/v ... ibbon-mic/
or look for the golden age stuff.

Cascade fatheads ot fatheadII seem fairly popular too - not sure if anyone is doing locally though. Ribbons can have problems in transport, so having a local source with warranty is handy, as the $50 you save buying overseas will get lost pretty quick if the ribbon is DOA.

You could also try running the guitars thru a cabinet plug - if your guitar amp plug lets you just go thru a cabinet or use an impulse reverb with a speaker/cabinet impulse rather than a reverb.

DwaneHollands wrote:

lonearranger wrote:Obviously spending large amounts of money on a better mic is another option, but you might enjoy another guitar more :-)

ha ha. I don't know, I'm kinda addicted to recording tools right now. However, VOX has put out the "Satchurator" distortion pedal which is about $200 and looks very tasty. Straight into the JCM800 with 4x12.... belisimo!

lonearranger wrote:The guitar on your track sounded pretty good though.

Cool. I'll keep working at getting better tones and sounds!

Have you seen the blackstar pedals? I have a DUAL HT which I like.

OK, this quoting thing is getting out of hand. lol.

Hear ya about the pencil thing only really working for vocal performances. Thanks for the tips on the ribbon microphones!

The verb I used was an impulse response of the Bricasti M7 library. But I never thought about using a cabinent impulse response on my live guitar. I suppose if I'm close enough to the speaker when mic-ing I suppose it might work.

The Blackstar pedal looks really interesting! Nice stuff. Checked out some youtube on it. Cool stuff.

Um.....I just ordered the VOX Satchurator....I couldn't help it <ashamed> ha ha.

DwaneHollands wrote:...

OK, this quoting thing is getting out of hand. lol.

Hear ya about the pencil thing only really working for vocal performances. Thanks for the tips on the ribbon microphones!

The verb I used was an impulse response of the Bricasti M7 library. But I never thought about using a cabinent impulse response on my live guitar. I suppose if I'm close enough to the speaker when mic-ing I suppose it might work.

The Blackstar pedal looks really interesting! Nice stuff. Checked out some youtube on it. Cool stuff.

Um.....I just ordered the VOX Satchurator....I couldn't help it <ashamed> ha ha.

PM me if you want me to send you the amp/speaker impulses I made when I first started playing with impulses years ago, still use them for nicing up guitars sometimes.

By the way - my favorite vox pedals weigh about 35KG and have 2 speakers and 4 el84s in them :-)
Cheers

lonearranger wrote:

DwaneHollands wrote:...

OK, this quoting thing is getting out of hand. lol.

Hear ya about the pencil thing only really working for vocal performances. Thanks for the tips on the ribbon microphones!

The verb I used was an impulse response of the Bricasti M7 library. But I never thought about using a cabinent impulse response on my live guitar. I suppose if I'm close enough to the speaker when mic-ing I suppose it might work.

The Blackstar pedal looks really interesting! Nice stuff. Checked out some youtube on it. Cool stuff.

Um.....I just ordered the VOX Satchurator....I couldn't help it <ashamed> ha ha.

PM me if you want me to send you the amp/speaker impulses I made when I first started playing with impulses years ago, still use them for nicing up guitars sometimes.

By the way - my favorite vox pedals weigh about 35KG and have 2 speakers and 4 el84s in them :-)
Cheers

Dude that'd be awesome. Love to use some impulses. When you say you use them for micing up guitars. Do you mean as a reference, or applying it to the finished recorded result taken from micing up the amp?

Have you got a Vox amp with distortion? I played through this vox amp about 10 years ago with a very nice sounding 1982 fender strat and the distortion was so creamy, defined bottom end and rich! It was the best combination I had ever tried!

Best Zappa album for guitar stuff is probably Zoot Allures (well, the best one to start with i think). Black Napkins, Zoot Allures (the song), The Torture Never Stops, all great Zappa guitar songs.

Hey Dwane, i think Vai had to invent the 10hour workout just to keep up with Zappa. Zappa really is a great guitarist, him and Vai are 2 of my favs.

Satriani, who's he???? Actually saw the last G3 concert in Sydney, Vai was #$%^& #$%^&& unbelievably good as usual. I left halfway through Satch's set, always sounds outta tune to me for some reason, just don't like his style of playing.

I think Vai should just play 3 sets next time. :)

Heard a snippet of Hot Rats 1971, but not much.

I managed to check out Zoot Allures song. Now I understand where Steve Vai get's his influence from! From the aranagement to the melodies and chord structures it's all Zappa!

I mean it's almost embarrasingly similar. But I suppose it's impossible not to be influenced by him after all those years playing his songs. Sounds like a lot of that style was solidified in Steve Vai.

Heath. I remember you saying that about Satriani, that he was out of time aswell. Steve's an amazing performer though. Watched that "tender surrender" live performance and man it's just explosive playing!

Yeah blows me away everytime, still my fav guitar piece.

Also with Zappa check out "I'm the slime" and "Montana", great tracks.

Man, I HATED G3 when it came to Perth. I am a big instrumental guitar music fan, but that gig was four of the most boring hours of my life. Im not a Satriani fan, but for me he stole the show. Petrucci had no energy, and i feel like if the most interesting thing to watch on stage is the drummer, something is not right. Vai was ok, but im not a fan of much of his stuff after Passion and Warfare.

2 weeks earlier Malmsteen was in town. I know maybe four or five of his songs, but he put on one of the best shows ive ever seen. Love him or hate him for the masturbatory widdle widdle, regardless he was a lot of fun to watch.

Dwane, grab any Zappa album from the early to mid 70's and you will be happy. 'Apostrophe' is a good one to start with, 'Over Nite Sensation' is also alot of fun. I think those are the albums that they did a Classic Albums DVD of, too. Great guitar playing, but also great songs that are fairly accessible.