Polar Windows - any opinions?

[The Tasmanian]

There has been mention of these Polar Windows on a few posts (Rick?).

I had a look at the brochure - 4mm tempered glass on both sides - that is pretty thin and goes against the principal of altering the thickness of one of the panes of glass for resonance/soundproofing factors.
So - has anyone tested them in a studio situation?
I've got a rather large shed studio to build, and want to build a whole lot of double glazed windows to take advantage of natural light (heating the floor) - and also I like to see the world outside when I am working.

I have a plan of doing a whole lot of large glass sections on external walls and a couple of booth windows.
And possibly making 2 large double glazed skylights for the roof.
If I really needed more Isolation in a booth situation then I could get a pair of these Polar windows and have a quad glazed window.

Its about time someone made a simple double glazed system here -
In Europe they are everywhere - nobody deals with single panels of glass so their double glazed window designs (30 years of R&D) are amazing for sound and keeping out the cold/heat.

The glass bill for my shed is starting to look stupid - then these windows came to my attention.
How cheap are they?
Anyone sussed them for sound yet?

[The Tasmanian]

I did the online calc
about $300 for a 1.5 x 0.6 fixed glass panel - that's pretty cost effective.
Still curios about the 4mm glass
Can anyone make sense of these spec's - and weather they are any good?

Screen shot 2011-04-29 at 6.46.24 AM.png

[Ben M]

Better to go with 2 sheets of 6.3mm glass Chris. The 4mm flex's with sound pressure and therefore will pass low freq's into rooms that are connected. I have 2 medium windows both with 2 sheets of 4mm (angled) between my live room and iso rooms and I hear movement in the glass when I'm standing in the iso rooms and a drummer is thumping in the live room with some kick coming through. It's minor and is masked by everything else but...2 sheets of 6.3mm would be much better.
Thicker laminated glass (6.3) will always be better.

Sounds like the man cave is starting to move along. Happy building man

[rick]

actually if you really want to arrest low freq "flexing glass is a good idea
but i disgress

i dont think the polars will be as nearly as good as a serious bespoke studio one with different thickness glass
( which would be made much thicker then the polar ones )
but in the price range we are talking that is a luxury
but they are cheap , modular , double glazed and airtight and will Knock out 80-90 percent of ambient noise without issue - well... depending on your cicada population

that makes them way better then not having them in a budget installation ,
hell put two in back to back at that price !

the different thickness glass is an academic "theory " to stop you creating a resonate freq " gate "
to let sound through at one freq only and it totally depends on the size of the window
i reckon its more theory then science in practice
the air trapped between the glass is what arrests most the sound transfer .. to a point then its the mass of the glass

i have seen all kinds of studio windows in my time .. you cannot beat the serious ones , but too many people kid themselves with the two thickness of glass theory i reckon , its just part of the puzzle

i have a distain for the "priddle" double glazed studio type window - never seen one work totally yet !

and then i keep running into the same idea executed properly by somebody else and i am amazed
i think Mdf is the flaw in the "priddle" window - i told him so and he said

"well i started making them and had them tested before mdf was invented so maybe your right ! "


the polars rose to my attention because we have a couple in one of the cot rooms in one of my wifes child care centers
it keeps screaming babies down to a mere whisper , which is mid to high freq stuff
so they do work for sure

i doubt they would stop the lows freq of a marshall stack , or a jumbo jet .
actually i dont doubt it ... they wont

for what is worth i am only having bespoke windows in my place

i just threw the polars out there to solve
angus 's need for a window the other day - for what he was looking for (small window ) they are perfect

those german or swiss double glazed monsters you see everywhere in europe would be the go for your needs i reckon chris
but they are made for countries where -10 degrees is normal for 70 % of the year - they are stunners or sure
with a price to match

actually it gets pretty cold in tassie ... you might just find a locally sourced solution ?

i had a dream about real pre made and fitted super acoustic doors in my place
i got the quote back the other day $4500 each x 14 doors fitted
.... bugger
so much for that dream

[The Tasmanian]

Agree Rick
As a young chippie in a joinery shop I built hundreds if not thousands of hand made doors and windows (even round ones!).
Built all the doors and windows at BJB too.
I am planning to custom build my doors and windows out of hand picked building grade oregan (no knots-nice!).
Then get my local glazier to supply the double glass panels already cut and sealed with gas.
The Polar doors have 6mm laminated (safety regulation) - they are about $1k - I can build one for less than that.
6mm laminated should be much better than 4mm(Polar)
Down in Tassie I'm not too overly worried about sound leakage as I have needed to be in the city.
Its keeping a huge shed warm is my focus - I'm doing the one big room - control room and live room combined (with a couple of booths)

One day soon I will have to build about 30 double glazed windows & 4 doors - that will keep me out of mischief for quite a while. -
Last night I was dreaming that I could walk into bunnings, make an order,and the following week put up huge sections of interlocking windows in one day with time to go to the local for a 5 o'clock beer.

I wish the Polar ones were more serious - they are a little bit be!@#$%^& using only 4mm glass.
I wonder how much 100 hz would be attenuated from the polars?

[The Tasmanian]

Rick - you could make them with a chippie for under $2k - get some more redgum - some nice danish oil - mmmm - nice....all the modern seals.
I have some good time saving tricks too if you need them - you should be able to make a great studio door in 3 hrs.
Windows a bit longer.

[The Tasmanian]

Ben - at BJB I did 12mm and 8mm safety glass on the big windows (2.4x1.8) and the rest 8mm both sides. used some bank tempered 12 mm glass doors on their side on one window (cost nothing)
At the time I made those windows there was not a huge price difference jumping up to 8mm - this was Alexandria Glass who were stupidly cheaper than all the other glass mobs I called at the time.
I was hoping there was some miracle development with these polar windows so that I could put it together like Lego and have good soundproofing
Dream on...........

[rick]

I have been making 4 panel stainedglass skylights all week
i can do 1 a night
i have every piece of 3 phase woodwork machinery any joinery woodshop would have
but every window/ skylight is a different size so it all takes time
i am ripping down hardwood floorboards from the old studio to make em
the factory next to mine is conviently sydneys stain glass window supply storehouse
so i am using lots of leadlight ( well i plan to the skylights are the first ones)

i am the same as you chris ...dreamed i could just order a bunch of doors
they would be better then i could build and i could just roll up the rollar door
and a bunch of guys would stroll in and would install my perfect doors in a day
then i woke up !

My studio has become a big woodworking shed with a minor studio distraction

[Ben M]

Ben - at BJB I did 12mm and 8mm safety glass on the big windows (2.4x1.8) and the rest 8mm both sides. used some bank tempered 12 mm glass doors on their side on one window (cost nothing)
At the time I made those windows there was not a huge price difference jumping up to 8mm - this was Alexandria Glass who were stupidly cheaper than all the other glass mobs I called at the time.
I was hoping there was some miracle development with these polar windows so that I could put it together like Lego and have good soundproofing
Dream on...........

Thanks Chris... Only reason I mentioned it is because my control room to live room window (3.2m x 1.2m) is 2 angled sheets of 6.3mm and naturally has better performance than the other ones I mentioned. And it's a much bigger window space as well.
I'm looking forward to seeing the new space.
Combined control room/live room studios are my ultimate spaces for recording. Keeping musicians connected in the one space will always get better performances.
cheers

[The Tasmanian]

Green glue is really good - if used in the right context/purposes
I like the idea of 2 polar windows - for speed building.
But consider the price of 2 sheets 600x600 x 6mm laminated is around $130.
Its always the time factor building windows.
Most of us just want to get some music recorded rather than chip away into the night.
I swing both ways.
Somebody must make a metal extrusion that was the building block for double glazed windows that can hold thicker panels of glass and still be used as a clip together modular design.
This type of basic system exist in modular office partition's

[rick]

Some cool info in this thread.
What I've ended up doing is using 2 x Polar windows back to back with the glass about 3 or 4 inches apart.
I went with the 600mm 'fixed' version.
I'm hoping that will be enough.
My facility is really only a budget room anyway and dollars are tight.
It's looking like costing $4000 to build a small 3m x 1m room under an external flight of stairs.

Question... Is Green glue worth it? - does it work as well as the website says?

ok well for the budget your on angus i think green glue is too expensive ...
i have done some unscientific tests at my place and i have an find a viable alternative at a 1/5-1/8th the price of green glue
but i cannot assume its as good ( well i can but its an unscientific assumption - i cannot build both green and XXX)
in my case i could not afford the tonne of green glue suggested by the manufacter - my place is too big for a realistic go at green glue - i am just not rich enough and too good at finding neat ways to save money , if you get those polar windows airtight two windows will knock out just about all of your problems i reckon well they will be better then the wall they sit in so what else can you do ?

i am not going to print up my subsitute for green glue as i have an ongoing reseller arrangement with the aust distributer of green glue - green glue works its proven its great - use it if you can
if you dont want to take risks etc etc


but when your ready to build if you decide green glue is not an option let me know
and i will reveal what i am using to you privately

[Ausrock]

I have been making 4 panel stainedglass skylights all week
i can do 1 a night..............................so i am using lots of leadlight ( well i plan to the skylights are the first ones)

"Skylights"........horizontal or vertical? If horizontal, I trust you're adequately reinforcing the lead "cames".

[rick]

light wells overhead in the corridors
i am making four panel hardwood windows its all very overengineered thanks for concern

[Ausrock]

Just curious......there was a time (long) past when I had my own glass studio

[rick]

You know ausrock over the years i have been amazed at all the things that i have been up to lately that you had already mastered years before , i cannot tell if we just both have excellent taste or no taste or just in the same loop in different decade
but seeing that you are always ten years at least ahead of me
why dont you take out all the mystery and let me know how it all ends up

[Ausrock]

Fishing, woodwork, s/glass and who knows what else............let just put it down to good taste . If you have the inclination, there's a bit of my past "work" shown here http://www.somersoft.com/forums/gallery ... puser=7232

[rick]

looks pretty good to me very well done ...errr chris... i mean peggy
so its a cross dressing kinda thing in store for me later on then

[Ausrock]

LMAO...........the Peggle (not Peggy) username came from Patrick Eggle the English luthier. The nicest playing guitar we have is an Eggle from the days (way back) when he still owned the company.

[rick]

sure chris o .. i think

[rick]

btw for no particular reason i have been perusing custom made solid turned wood snare drums on the internet
it made me think of you the other night

[Gian]

Spirit drums?
My friend has one. It is beautiful, loud and very snappy.

[rick]

dunno
i was offered a simply stunning DW recording kit i cannot afford right now by a mate in LA and i started looking at what it was made up of and after a few searches i started seeing stave made jarrah snare drums coming up
before i knew it i was surfing the technics to hand turn such a beast
with some fascination i lost most of the night

i believe peggie has nailed that process of lathe turning solid wood drums drums years ago as well

[Alistair]

A mate of mine makes these kits-
[url]http://moodydrums.com/[/url

Pretty incredible drums really- he's made kits out of a stack of different methods, including segments and it's pretty interesting to hear the difference. I've also got a friend with a set of Canopus drums, which I think are solid carved wood. That's one of my favourite kits in the world.

[Gian]

Orry about being OT but here's the link to Spirit Drums here in Australia
http://www.spiritdrums.com

[rick]

yeah i saw that... good stuff

[Ausrock]

i believe peggie has nailed that process of lathe turning solid wood drums drums years ago as well

Thanks for kinda remembering. Yeah, I have a wood lathe and have made stave type cylinders but my drum shells were traditional style ply. With all respect to the likes of Moody, every fourth man, dog and kid that hits a drum seems to be having a go at stave shells as they're really not difficult and you don't need a lathe.......there's numerous designs on the www for jigs that very succesfully use a router to "dress" the shells

[Alistair]

Completely agree- there's lots of drum makers/guitar makers/everyone with a bit of spare time and a couple of tools. Apart from anything else it's been interesting for me to hear stave and segment and ply kits all of the same sizes and the differences in sound.
Very similar to the differences between carved top and ply guitars- in some ways subtle, in some ways huge.

[rick]

i just want one of those beautiful solid wood kits
there seems to be quite a bunch of makers and sytles to choose from - if i ever get my live room up and ready for drums i am planning on three kits all miced up all the time - ready to pick and choose
as of this week one is going to be an australian wooden kit - but what kind /style .. ?
f@#$s knows it will be the one with THE tone
i cant play drums !
so i am ripe for endorsements....
"as NOT played by rick !"

[Chris H]

i just want one of those beautiful solid wood kits
there seems to be quite a bunch of makers and sytles to choose from - if i ever get my live room up and ready for drums i am planning on three kits all miced up all the time - ready to pick and choose
as of this week one is going to be an australian wooden kit - but what kind /style .. ?
f@#$s knows it will be the one with THE tone
i cant play drums !
so i am ripe for endorsements....
"as NOT played by rick !"

..........so Rick has purchased a Brady kit!

(green with envy)

[rick]

Ha christ no
i am so broke at the moment i am just about to fly to greece today booked and paid for ages ago when i thought studio would be well open by now
But so broke ii am looking up what the departure tax is and seeing if we can cope with it !
No drum kits for me for a long time
the only live room i have finished and ready for drum kits is in my imagination sitting next to the money i need to make it happen faster

But those bradys sure look fine