Music Retail

[ChrisW]

One thing I love about Aussie retail and the lack of consumer power.
I saw something listed on a (well known) music stores's webpage as $1699, but it had a line through it and the following text "Call For Best Price".
So you're thinking a reasonable discount under the RRP of $1699? But no...... they got back to me with a quote of $1749.00.
Hmm, the advertised RRP is crossed out because the best price they can do is actually more?

[Chinagraf]

Ha! Way to go Aussie retail...no wonder we all love and support it.

[GlennS]

...unless the price they quoted includes GST & the RRP doesn't.

[Kurt]

As of a couple of years ago it is illegal to advertise an ex-gst price without also quoting the gst inclusive price.

...unless the price they quoted includes GST & the RRP doesn't.

[ChrisW]

Both advertised and 'best' price included GST.
I think it's illegal to advertise a price and actually charge more. So to be fair, the store agreed to honor the advertised price, although I had assumed an actual price below $1699, so I declined to purchase the item.
The excuse given was "we haven't updated our webpage for a while".

[Manning]

Both advertised and 'best' price included GST.
I think it's illegal to advertise a price and actually charge more. So to be fair, the store agreed to honor the advertised price, although I had assumed an actual price below $1699, so I declined to purchase the item.
The excuse given was "we haven't updated our webpage for a while".

Bush lawyer time:

Section 47 of the Trade Practices Amendment (Australian Consumer Law) Act (No. 2) 2010 indicates it is indeed illegal to attempt to sell an item at a higher price when a lower price has been advertised. This does not prevent the listing of both an ex-GST and an inc-GST price, as long as they are clearly labelled as such and equally prominent.

Under Section 48 is lawful to provide an 'ex-GST' price only when the business does not supply retail consumers ("goods or services of a kind ordinarily acquired for personal, domestic or household use or consumption").

Apart from that "trade" exception, it has never been legal to publish an ex-GST price only.

[Lucas]

Or it could be a simple mistake made by the IT department. As a retailer I get a bit peeved when people get so upset about things like this.

[ChrisW]

I did explain it wasn't an issue with GST.
The store decided to sell the unit at a higher price, but had not changed their website to reflect that.
Interesting, given the amount of comment on television news about the rise of online shopping and the retreat from the shopping mall.
I'd say, maybe they need to pick up their game.
In the end, I would have bought the item for less than $1699 as the online store page of this retailer implied, but at $1749 no. So I was just amused that "call for best price" ended up being more than the advertised price.

[Wiz]

Funny.......i just came across this myself today......on the shops website.....
.price was listed as 1099 rrp........our price .....1175.... So i rang the store...asked which price was right....dude says....neither...its 1490......what a joke....


Peter

[GlennS]

A client asked me to help him buy a cheap recording interface late last year so I walked into the local Billy Hydes & saw what he needed for $199. I told him & took him in a few weeks later & the price was $279, which is a 40% mark up. I mentioned to the salesperson that last time I had come in it was $199, so he sold it to my client for that price. Kinda makes you wonder where the extra $80 comes from.

[Manning]

Typically there would be two circumstances at play here:
1 - the distributor sold them some units at a discounted rate, allowing them to have a sale
2 - they had too many items in stock and were selling at (or near) cost to reduce inventory.

Just FYI, retail markup in the music industry is typically 66% or 100% of wholesale (equiv to 40% or 50% of RRP).

[The Tasmanian]

When these shops advertise a cheaper price and then tell you it was a "mistake" then they deserve people buying from overseas.
Its a scam and there is no excuse for the "sorry it was a mistake"
And its happened to me twice last year too.
Like every other industry - we pay for our mistakes - we cannot quote a price for something and then change it.
If its advertised at a cheaper price then they should sell it at that price - even if its at a loss.
I know retail is in a bad way - but dishonest advertising is a scam.
Surely they can be more creative at getting sales than using the "mistake" trick.

[Manning]

Well the simplest technique is to inform them that it is illegal to do so, and there are penalties proscribed in law for this conduct. Furthermore, they are required by law to sell to you at the advertised price.

The only exceptions to this are when a price is so hopelessly inaccurate so as to fail the 'reasonable man' test, eg a Mercedes advertised at $130 rather than $130,000, In most of these extreme cases the courts have ruled in favour of the seller, although the degree of difference needs to be very dramatic, and the seller must be able to demonstrate that they acted swiftly and responsibly to rectify the mistake.

The fair and accurate pricing of items is governed by law, and it is the responsibility of all retailers to ensure that their pricing is accurate, just as it is the responsibility of manufacturers to to ensure their products operate as claimed.

Put another way, the primary service of a retailer is to sell goods, and hence correct pricing is fundamental to delivery of this service. The law regards "careless pricing" as no less egregious than "careless manufacturing".

[ChrisW]

For me it's an issue of neglecting web sales. Also, driving interest by implying lower prices, then not delivering on those prices when you formally enquire.
I should stress again, the retailer offered to sell me the unit at $1699, although that was described as the RRP with a line through it on the online store page.
On retail in general, I've had blatant rip off issues with David Jones several times.
In their food hall, if an item has a reduced to clear sticker on it, several times the check out operator has swiped the bar code and charged me full price. I now know to check, but a couple of times I got home and happened to glance at the receipt and realised the mistake.
A couple of times I've bought clothing in their 20% sale, but again, the checkout operator hasn't read the sign above the rack, swiped the barcode and the barcode has come up with the normal full price.
I go into David Jones about ten times a year and this has happened to me more than six times.

[Manning]

The law does not distinguish the method of advertising a written price. Web, catalog, hand-written quote, it doesn't matter - a published price is a published price. If it's an Australian retailer to an Australian customer, then Australian Consumer Law applies.

[ChrisW]

a published price is a published price.

Oh yes, I agree. Never disagreed.

[stosostu]

check out operator has swiped the bar code and charged me full price.

This happens all the time at supermarkets. Always watch the register as things are being swiped and know what the price should be, or be prepared to be ripped off.

[GlennS]

check out operator has swiped the bar code and charged me full price.

This happens all the time at supermarkets. Always watch the register as things are being swiped and know what the price should be, or be prepared to be ripped off.

I'm not sure if it's law or company policy, but if this happens at Woolies & you tell them the wrong price has been rung up you get the item for free.

[Kurt]

It's a voluntary code of practice that the major supermarket are signatories to.

check out operator has swiped the bar code and charged me full price.

This happens all the time at supermarkets. Always watch the register as things are being swiped and know what the price should be, or be prepared to be ripped off.

I'm not sure if it's law or company policy, but if this happens at Woolies & you tell them the wrong price has been rung up you get the item for free.

[ChrisW]

I didn't know that.
When it's happened to me (at DJ's, but also Woolies) the higher price has been deducted and the discounted price inserted. No mention of a freebie!

Would be nice to get a free piece of studio outboard.

[Wiz]

I once got a 80 dollar esky, for 80 cents at woolworths.....8) that was the price on the ticket...thats what they gave it to me for...

Peter

[Thirteen]

Wow, this is a tough room.

Retailers are not making much these days. Musical equipment retailers make bugger all. Take it easy on them guys, they are not living the high life by ripping you off. If owning a music shop in Australia was a good profitable enterprise there would be large, well stocked stores everywhere. Instead the shops that sell pro gear and carry all of the nice stuff on the shelves for you all to go and try out before you buy in on the net are becoming fewer.

[Kurt]

Years ago I worked at Liquorland (briefly!) There were codes to enter if, for example, someone bought 6 of the same stubbies. The code would price them as a six pack, cheaper than 6 individual stubbies. The store manager discouraged staff from using this code so the store made more profit. If someone kicked up a stink, apologise and use the code... Coles policy was if it scans higher, the first one is free, the rest at the ticketed price. Again, the store manager had us use the ticket price but not offer the freebie unless specifically asked by the customer.

I didn't know that.
When it's happened to me (at DJ's, but also Woolies) the higher price has been deducted and the discounted price inserted. No mention of a freebie!

Would be nice to get a free piece of studio outboard.

[ChrisW]

Wow, this is a tough room.

OK.
I was really more amused with the scenario than anything else.
But on a slightly more serious note, more Aussies are apparently going online to shop. So stores shouldn't neglect keeping their online stores correct and up to date.

[Lucas]

When these shops advertise a cheaper price and then tell you it was a "mistake" then they deserve people buying from overseas.
Its a scam and there is no excuse for the "sorry it was a mistake"
And its happened to me twice last year too.
Like every other industry - we pay for our mistakes - we cannot quote a price for something and then change it.
If its advertised at a cheaper price then they should sell it at that price - even if its at a loss.
I know retail is in a bad way - but dishonest advertising is a scam.
Surely they can be more creative at getting sales than using the "mistake" trick.

There have been a few times when my staff have mistakenly priced products at their wholesale price and placed them on the shelf. Its not a scam or a premeditated marketing ploy. When this has occurred I do not offer the product to my customers at the wholesale price - I explain the mistake and 99% of customers are fine with that. For the 1% that aren't I offer to meet the half way which has been accepted so far.

Everyone in retail is human. Private business is not a public service and no lives are at risk.

[Wiz]

There is another side to the coin.

Just yesterday I was looking at pieces of gear online and found a website that had the bit of gear
I was looking for at a good price, the website looked fantastic....it would have been very very easy to have clicked the buy now button.

As always, when going to buy from somewhere like this that I haven't used from I googled them.....then I got some horror stories (not unusual) and then I got this link...

which is a video from a consumer affairs type of show in NZ.

http://tvnz.co.nz/fair-go/hitting-bum-n ... eo-4203094

caveat emptor


Peter

[The Tasmanian]

Lucas - I wish I could agree with you about the halfway mark.
I believe if I give anyone a price for something I should honor it - and if one of my staff f@#$s the price up - I still should honor it (and give said employee a fine earbashing!)
To me that is goodwill with the client and is something they will never forget.
In every other industry - you quote a price and you should sell it/supply the job at that price.
Why should music retail be different?

If your employees cant get their pricing correct - then dont let them do it - or double check their work

There is an old saying in carpentry - measure twice/cut once.

[Lucas]

Just to clarify - I'm not in music retail, but retail non the less.

I try to break down the retailer/customer divide and just have people in my store. People behind the counter are just as imperfect as those in front of it and I expect my customers to return the same tolerance to us that we show them - and I do mean tollerance.

I don't know how many people on this forum have worked reatil, but it can be just plain nasty at times. I have never been treated by clients in any other industry the way I am in sometimes treated in store. It's like being a stress ball and toilet bowl all at once some days. By no means is this an everyday experience -I wouldn't be in it if it was. My point is that when I have customers act without perfection in my space I try to give them the benifit of the doubt and I don't try and hold them up to some unwavering standard of perfection. I emphasise that we are all just people - people make mistakes, the worlds keeps spinning, we aren't in famine, there are no bombs dropping and that a litlle pricing gun mistake (or data entry) should be by no means the catalyst for the ruining of anyones day or the stepping up onto soap boxes (he says as he steps back down...) Accept the mistake as a mistake- I always do as a customer.

[ChrisW]

I'm not getting - the retail employees are the same as customers - analogy.
When I'm a customer I'm not doing it professionally. Store employees are supposed to be the experts, supposed to be professional and are paid to perform a service. I'm not an epert shopper, nor am I paid to shop.
Yeah, everyone makes mistakes, and I try very hard to be 1) respectful and 2) reasonable, but trying to suggest store staff are exactly the same as the customers is a step too far IMO.

As a drummer I'm not the same as the songwriter or producer (client I'm selling my service to). If I make a mistake, or am not up to the task, I feel very bad, and try never to let it happen again. That is the essence of professionalism.

[Lucas]

I'm not getting - the retail employees are the same as customers - analogy.
When I'm a customer I'm not doing it professionally. Store employees are supposed to be the experts, supposed to be professional and are paid to perform a service. I'm not an epert shopper, nor am I paid to shop.
Yeah, everyone makes mistakes, and I try very hard to be 1) respectful and 2) reasonable, but trying to suggest store staff are exactly the same as the customers is a step too far IMO.

As a drummer I'm not the same as the songwriter or producer (client I'm selling my service to). If I make a mistake, or am not up to the task, I feel very bad, and try never to let it happen again. That is the essence of professionalism.

That's something to think about.

Interestingly, our store is held in high regard for its service. I'll have to have a think about how it is two seemingly opposing philosophies manage to coexist and compliment each other.

In the end my approach is all about fostering meaningful human interaction in an everyday setting and trying to avoid the calculated manipulative conduct that has become so common in retail. I suppose that shows I do agree with a lot of what had already been said....